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Flux Raeder
WarRavens League of Infamy
147
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 05:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:That the only real thing needed to balance AV and Vehicles is simply to REMOVE AV grenades?
Yes, forge guns and swarm launchers tear vehicles apart to but you know what? People have specced into them to be AV troops, they take those weapons with the perks and disadvantages they bring and thats fair enough. But why should people who put points in actual AV weapons be robbed of their niche because people are able to take Grenades that wor just as well if not better? With AV grenades in the game why should people specc into AV weapons when they can take any other gun and simply carry grenades with them? AV Grenades don't only nerf vehicles but they also nerf other AV methods.
Before people go on saying "oh but you have to get close for AV grenades" oh cos it's so hard isn't it princess? to jump into a buggy, hell use a murder taxi, barge your way through the tanks infrantry support, get in close before hoping out and taking out the tank in 2-3 grenades? Why should someone who made the active decision not to take an AV primary weapon be allowed to to do the job of dedicated AV soldiers?
Whats that? "how can I defend myself from murder taxi's then?" Funnily enough AV doesn't just apply to tanks, if AV troops felt that they was actually needed they would use their AV fits more if not for the whole match even. Hard to murder taxi when the enemy team has a full squad of AV specced people who are doing nothing the whole match except aiming for enemy vehicles.
By taking AV grenades as a precaution your shooting yourself in the foot, while your busy gunning at infantry those taxi's are coming for you while your busy with your main objective for your fitting.
Of course all this would mean that teams are actually...wait for it...A TEAM!? rather than 16 solo guys who occasionally band together to get orbital support. Yes, if you take a forge gun, swarm launcher or Plasma cannon your infantry killing power is reduced, and your vunerable in combat, but thats where foot soldiers come in, they support the AV infranty by keeping the foot soldiers of their backs and in return the AV soldiers keep the vehicles off the foot soldiers backs.
The biggest argument against this is that you should not have to put all your sp into av just to make a dent in the constant stream of tanks and LAVs. If anything the drivers should get better or spec more of their sp into their vehicles, a standard av 'nade shouldn't worry you if you invested wisely. The nerf calls for this game are already pretty ridiculous, everyone just wants THEIR fit to be all-powerful. |
Flux Raeder
WarRavens League of Infamy
147
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 05:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Flux Raeder wrote:Coleman Gray wrote:That the only real thing needed to balance AV and Vehicles is simply to REMOVE AV grenades?
Yes, forge guns and swarm launchers tear vehicles apart to but you know what? People have specced into them to be AV troops, they take those weapons with the perks and disadvantages they bring and thats fair enough. But why should people who put points in actual AV weapons be robbed of their niche because people are able to take Grenades that wor just as well if not better? With AV grenades in the game why should people specc into AV weapons when they can take any other gun and simply carry grenades with them? AV Grenades don't only nerf vehicles but they also nerf other AV methods.
Before people go on saying "oh but you have to get close for AV grenades" oh cos it's so hard isn't it princess? to jump into a buggy, hell use a murder taxi, barge your way through the tanks infrantry support, get in close before hoping out and taking out the tank in 2-3 grenades? Why should someone who made the active decision not to take an AV primary weapon be allowed to to do the job of dedicated AV soldiers?
Whats that? "how can I defend myself from murder taxi's then?" Funnily enough AV doesn't just apply to tanks, if AV troops felt that they was actually needed they would use their AV fits more if not for the whole match even. Hard to murder taxi when the enemy team has a full squad of AV specced people who are doing nothing the whole match except aiming for enemy vehicles.
By taking AV grenades as a precaution your shooting yourself in the foot, while your busy gunning at infantry those taxi's are coming for you while your busy with your main objective for your fitting.
Of course all this would mean that teams are actually...wait for it...A TEAM!? rather than 16 solo guys who occasionally band together to get orbital support. Yes, if you take a forge gun, swarm launcher or Plasma cannon your infantry killing power is reduced, and your vunerable in combat, but thats where foot soldiers come in, they support the AV infranty by keeping the foot soldiers of their backs and in return the AV soldiers keep the vehicles off the foot soldiers backs.
The biggest argument against this is that you should not have to put all your sp into av just to make a dent in the constant stream of tanks and LAVs. If anything the drivers should get better or spec more of their sp into their vehicles, a standard av 'nade shouldn't worry you if you invested wisely. The nerf calls for this game are already pretty ridiculous, everyone just wants THEIR fit to be all-powerful. But thats the game..you pick your role and stick to it I understand the concept of the game, that doesn't have much to do with this situation though, CCP seems to strive for realism and is at least trying to balance the gameplay, there is no logical or gameplay-improving reason for it to take 5 people to take down a single tank. If a tank becomes so powerful that it takes half a team to hurt it then be careful what you are wishing for because they WILL have to balance it again by making it several mil isk each for low level tanks |
Flux Raeder
WarRavens League of Infamy
147
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 05:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:AV nades are OP, But removing them would make tanks OP. So make them Only carry one. Have a reduced damage version that can carry two. Now at least itll take more than one person to pop a tank, as it should be. But the argument people have is that ADV and Proto AV weapons rip tanks apart because theres only standard vehicles, so why would the removal of AV grenades make Tanks OP? trying not to sound sarcastic with text either. From an infranrty point of view tell me in what way is it fair that people don't even need to specc specifically into AV to be able to take out vehicles? Well this might sound unrelated and controversial but it's true: a random guy in Syria can take out a tank with a single rpg round. Tanks should have something to fear at all distances. Give me some PROPERLY FUNCTIONING (lol) proxy mines and I am ok with the removal of the grenades. |
Flux Raeder
WarRavens League of Infamy
147
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 05:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Flux Raeder wrote:Coleman Gray wrote:Flux Raeder wrote:Coleman Gray wrote:That the only real thing needed to balance AV and Vehicles is simply to REMOVE AV grenades?
Yes, forge guns and swarm launchers tear vehicles apart to but you know what? People have specced into them to be AV troops, they take those weapons with the perks and disadvantages they bring and thats fair enough. But why should people who put points in actual AV weapons be robbed of their niche because people are able to take Grenades that wor just as well if not better? With AV grenades in the game why should people specc into AV weapons when they can take any other gun and simply carry grenades with them? AV Grenades don't only nerf vehicles but they also nerf other AV methods.
Before people go on saying "oh but you have to get close for AV grenades" oh cos it's so hard isn't it princess? to jump into a buggy, hell use a murder taxi, barge your way through the tanks infrantry support, get in close before hoping out and taking out the tank in 2-3 grenades? Why should someone who made the active decision not to take an AV primary weapon be allowed to to do the job of dedicated AV soldiers?
Whats that? "how can I defend myself from murder taxi's then?" Funnily enough AV doesn't just apply to tanks, if AV troops felt that they was actually needed they would use their AV fits more if not for the whole match even. Hard to murder taxi when the enemy team has a full squad of AV specced people who are doing nothing the whole match except aiming for enemy vehicles.
By taking AV grenades as a precaution your shooting yourself in the foot, while your busy gunning at infantry those taxi's are coming for you while your busy with your main objective for your fitting.
Of course all this would mean that teams are actually...wait for it...A TEAM!? rather than 16 solo guys who occasionally band together to get orbital support. Yes, if you take a forge gun, swarm launcher or Plasma cannon your infantry killing power is reduced, and your vunerable in combat, but thats where foot soldiers come in, they support the AV infranty by keeping the foot soldiers of their backs and in return the AV soldiers keep the vehicles off the foot soldiers backs.
The biggest argument against this is that you should not have to put all your sp into av just to make a dent in the constant stream of tanks and LAVs. If anything the drivers should get better or spec more of their sp into their vehicles, a standard av 'nade shouldn't worry you if you invested wisely. The nerf calls for this game are already pretty ridiculous, everyone just wants THEIR fit to be all-powerful. But thats the game..you pick your role and stick to it I understand the concept of the game, that doesn't have much to do with this situation though, CCP seems to strive for realism and is at least trying to balance the gameplay, there is no logical or gameplay-improving reason for it to take 5 people to take down a single tank. If a tank becomes so powerful that it takes half a team to hurt it then be careful what you are wishing for because they WILL have to balance it again by making it several mil isk each for low level tanks I'm not asking for a tank buff or an AV weapon nerf. I'm asking that AV roles actually be worth while taking. Why should people take for the obvious example swarm launchers as a weapon choice, have next to no ability to defend themselves in a firefight when they can take a shotgun and AV grenades and have their cake and eat it to? That's reasonable to an extent, however to me it sounds like a better solution would be to add more benefits to the role rather than eliminating another role by removing an item. Maybe a spotting bonus? Or how about this, if a friendly is locked onto a tai you have a much quicker lock-on time and a kill gives the spotter a worthwhile amount of pts? I'm sure many people can think of much better returns for the role, that's just the first off the top of my head. |
Flux Raeder
WarRavens League of Infamy
148
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 06:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Flux Raeder wrote:
I'm not asking for a tank buff or an AV weapon nerf. I'm asking that AV roles actually be worth while taking. Why should people take for the obvious example swarm launchers as a weapon choice, have next to no ability to defend themselves in a firefight when they can take a shotgun and AV grenades and have their cake and eat it to?
That's reasonable to an extent, however to me it sounds like a better solution would be to add more benefits to the role rather than eliminating another role by removing an item. Maybe a spotting bonus? Or how about this, if a friendly is locked onto a tai you have a much quicker lock-on time and a kill gives the spotter a worthwhile amount of pts? I'm sure many people can think of much better returns for the role, that's just the first off the top of my head.
A sound response and idea, but what is the role of AV grenades? Grenadier skill already gives people great anti-personel weapons without needing to give people a "safety net" against vehicles.
Edit* wow this conversation has got to the point where I need to remove some of the qoutes lol[/quote] ATM av grenades are the best close-quarters defense against vehicles, something that is a must in any fps (c4 in bf3 for example), because as it stands our only reliable defenses are mid-long range. It is really a significant role especially with kill-taxiing still happening. I mainly don't want to see this area of defense removed because it is vital to vehicle warfare, if we were to compromise I would suggest switching to something that requires more precision and strategy than lobbing a grenade. Perhaps specialized av mines (limit of 2-5 at a time) which would be visible to a careful tank driver, or possible some equivalent of sticky c4!that requires you to actually get right up to the tank |
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